Anyone who knows me well enough or for that matter even vaguely knows how much I do not like Alenko. However last week I decided to play through ME 1 and 2 and have Alenko as my RI. I had heard there would be a nice surprise for being "faithful" so I was going to stay true to him as I have done with Liara in my "real" playthrough.
Then Horizon happened, Alenko patronized me, insulted me and pretty much said he had no faith in my judgement. To me I took that as the deal breaker.... I could not stay in a relationship with someone who did not trust me without reservation. Alenko did not... His loss became Thane's gain. I am wondering though if this is just my interpretation and would love to hear the opinions of the Kaiden lovers about his attitude on Horizon (Yes I know he says sorry in an email but to me that's too little too late).
I think you have a point and think it depends on the recipients personality. I believe, to use your example, that your husband or my wife in fact has two options... If I were in this scenario my wife would 1) Believe me and we get back together or 2) Don't believe me and we go our separate ways. If my word is not good enough then their is no relationship. I would not EXPECT her to take my word in these circumstances but sorry, if the trust is gone so has has the relationship. I am sure it may be something that could be overcome but for his last line basically accusing Shep of treason. My wife could possibly believe many things of me but she would never belive I'd work against either my native home Great Britain or my adopted home USA. I am, like, Shep, a patriot. Unless Shep has Stockholm Syndrome it is not possible. Especially after he witnessed the administration not believing her in ME1 he now wants to join the doubters?? That would drive me insane. The one person in the galaxy i can count on has now joined the ranks of the politicians ...
I also think it was more Anderson setting up Kaiden not TIM. Anderson recruited KA to investigate Shepard and told KA it was possible she had defected. However, he chose of his own volition to mistrust Shep's motives. NO ONE can come between a couple unless one or both let them. The first place I took the Normandy 2 was to meet Anderson and after Horizon he admits getting KA to spy on her. Now would you expect your husband to work behind your back and against you this scenario? Would any extra disc space or extra plot development excuse the accusation of traitor? Shep's a marine, the hero of the citadel, a "living god" as KA puts it. Yet he calls her a traitor, or at least implies it. My Shep's response attitude is simple "Sure it hurts, sure you have questions but not trusting me is bad yet calling me traitor crosses a line of no return. Not trusting her means they can part on friendly terms....the traitor comment ends all possible friendship. I left that convo hating KA (OK i don't like Kaiden anyway but in my primary game Shep leaves hating Ash.)
In a way I understand why he does it to, just don't expect dinner and dancing because we can't go back to what we once had now.
I gotta respond to your PPS first. Yes, I freely admit to not liking Kaidan. He is a carbon copy of Carth in KOTOR who not only whined about his past but also put up with being talked to like crap from my character in both games and is voiced by the same actor (The actor is really good it's the characters Carth/Kaidan that annoy me. I did wonder if it was my loathing of him that made me feel the way I do but and it is a big but... I love Ashley, my primary Shep was BFF with her. However, her attitude (and 99% of her lines) are identical to KA's. My Shep is not forgiving of her attitude either and if given the option in ME3 her attitude will be "we may have to work together but don't expect us to be close." The MAJOR difference though is Ash is Claire's best friend NOT her lover/partner/significant other. It is not so mind blowing to be let down by a friend than it is to be let down by a lover.
Yes I am a committed believer in unconditional trust in a relationship and yes breaking that trust to me in real life would be a marriage/relationship ender... in fact it has been for me. Again using real life as an example I think a year is sufficient for that trust.... I met my wife when working in Chicago and we dated for a month before I had to return to UK. We had an online "romance" for two years before we met again and I married her four weeks later. We celebrated our fifth aniversary in August and have three kids. OK I get that is not typical but we were not even on the same continent and we trusted each other. Shep an KA lived in each others pockets, they went to hell and back together and even if they were not lovers that bond should be a tight one.
Kaidan After Virmire....lol hey I thought it was funny :(
I need to point out I am neither trying to sway others minds nor have my own mind swayed. I was merely very curious as to whether others shared or disagreed with my interpretation and hearing others views. I like hearing others views whether I am in agreement or not. I enjoy the debate and if someone sways my opinion I will be the first to admit it. I can be swayed and I am not so rigid my view cannot be changed. I appreciate your view and even appreciate even more your taking the time to share it. I even understand your view from your perspective. I have however, not read anything that changes my initial opinion.
Bioware handled it badly I think we can be united on that. Although I cannot simply concede to them an open book on limitations. ME2 was much much much more limited than ME1 on twice the disc space... The character I developed from the options in 1 was not carried into 2. Death appears to have mellowed my Shep. The reality is the game has moved from Roleplaying with Shooting to Shooting with Roleplaying.... I am not going into rumors here but let say I await ME3 with a considerable amount of concern.
LOL I don't like Anders!!! Don't worry I am not going there other than to say that DA2 is another game that drifted from it's RPG roots. If folk want gratuitous violence then there are hundreds out there.... Bioware is making a big mistake if it continues to slide away from it's unique position. At present i only play games by Bioware and Obsidian and if the go into the mainstream then my gaming days are over :(
Maybe Shep does get my views, i hope not because she is pretty fascist lol
My main problem with the situation is not necessarily his bad attitude. He does feel betrayed, and I fully understand that. My problem is that he doesn't let you explain. Well both Ash and Kaiden.
But honestly, when I look at it from both angles with them, the behavior suits Ashley and her character. When Kaiden does it, it comes off as annoying and obnoxious. It's not what you'd expect from him. I always expect that from Ash because that's just how she is.
Yeah we can all agree that the options in the Horizon convo were really really bad. There were a lot of frustrating aspects to the plot. When I first played and took over the SR2 I spent 2 to three hours devoted to trying to find a way to remove TIMs monitors. The fact I was locked out of parts of my ship like EDI's room made me determined to shut her down. My paranoia increased when she was restricted from answering my questions. When Tali comes on board and starts commenting on the recording devices I thought "aah now i can get her to fix this." At no time did I think locking out TIM would NOT be an option. Does it occur to anyone that TIM or his cronies watched any liaison with an LI? Ewwww!!
After Shep was betrayed by TIM on the collector ship I looked for the option to say "OK we are done now. Don't call me and Miranda is going to take a nice walk out of the airlock." instead it was "OK you tried to kill me but I'm letting you off on this occasion.
Horizon equally annoyed me. It felt like I had a hand over my mouth because no option came even close to what I wanted to say. I also think you have a good point, Kite, yup Ash can be a bitch but it is not quite right coming from KA who in ME1 does not have a single vindictive bone in his body. One of the reasons I don't like him was the fact he put up with crap from me in 1. Oh how I remember him caving to my "aliens suck and we are better." fight. Just like Carth who always found a way to justify my brutality and murders I committed as a Sith in Kotor lol
oooh don't confuse me with the way I play my Shepard. She is not me and her values and opinions are not remotely mine. Yes his advise did go waaaaay over her head. I have no feelings to justify because (and I may shock some folk here so sit down guys) it is JUST a game and my only feelings are frustration when I don't have 300 convo options to chose from lol. Also it is not my twisting anything, it is simply how I interpret what I heard. I could equally argue that you are so besotted by KA that you see him through rose coloured glasses....however I'd be wrong too.
No you can't make him xenophobic but my Shep got him to agree her Xenophobia was sound. As for pulling rank ...hey if you try that then he shuts up because pulling rank is an option in ME1... both he and Ash stop talking if you pull the "I'm a commanding officer." stunt. Both ask permission to talk candidly and only do so if that is granted. So nooooo he can't be just conceding to a superior. That is how I see it not how I twist it.
let's be honest if we all interpreted things the same way we could eradicate politics, end wars and all live quiet sedate lives and not have choices in ME :)
Garrus complains that he does not no get to beat people up..... Kaiden complains that he has to beat people up.... Mass Effect is a violent game, I want the violent dude watching my back. KA is a soldier who is not OK about hurting people.
I have never been in a school debate but I have held several elected positions and to get those you need to understand opposition views so you can destroy them in a public forum lol. However, my political opposition were never my enemies and in many cases I became friends.
Hate is a really bad word and I withdraw it unreservedly. Why did I romance KA.... basically I have my Prime Shepard ... Claire, neo-nazi xenophobe who is in love with and remained to an alien (Liara). KA is dead and Ash is in the dog house. She is my first playthrough in both games and stays unchanged. Her screw ups follow her and I will never ever replay her to "fix" things i predict may be needed in 3. However, I'm addicted and have to play and play. So i do and each time I change it and thought I'd spare KA this once and play it as RI. I fully intended to play my "KA lives" version with Shep being loyal just to see how that loyalty plays out in ME3. However I found after Horizon I could not make my Shep do that and had her go off with Thane. The silly thing was that I was so determined to stick with KA. That is why I became curious as to how others saw this.
If it helps, if I played as Manshep and it was Ashley, my points here would be no different at all. So although we have digressed from the original point ... the truth is Ash is a much a creep to John as Kaidan is to Jane....In my opinion .... Though i have only tried to play as a guy once and gave up.
That brings up another irritation I have with ME2.... My sweet lil neo-nazi Shep is not like total renegade. She is loyal to her crew. I actually liked that in ME1 she did not have to agree with Kaidan to get his LI but I play her with this idea.... She is a bitch but for the right reasons. She is a paragon to the innocent and heartless to the guilty. In 1 she she sympathised with KA and Ash while shooting the crazy scientist and burning the bug. In ME1 that worked and I came out just a few Renegade points over Paragon. This does not work in ME2...averaging these options in 2 means I lose the "resolve mutually" options in the fights i have to take sides with either Miranda or Jack and Tali or Legion. (Ok I side against the Geth anyway but thats not the point) I felt penalized for being fair to my crew.
Whilst my Shep is a xenophobe that does not mean she is going to let the Quarians be persecuted. She helps the ones in trouble but also thinks the genophage is an unfortunate necessity to ensure her own races survival. Releasing the Rachni equally seemed insane even though her response was the worst crime imaginable...genocide. She had to make the hard choice that others cannot. That is how she both justifies her acts and sleeps at night. I thought the Rachni question much harder than choosing between Ash and KA (Yes I admit i was so surprised at the Ash - KA question i left the choice on the screen went and made a coffee and sat outside and smoked two cigarettes before I decided Ash was going to live.) The Rachni question is not about killing one talking bug. It's about killing an entire intelligent race. Claire might be xenophobic but she is no psychopath. She decided that history had made the decision and the bug died. Afterwards, to add fuel to the fire KA says I should have left that decision to the council....I thought the could have included me the right to reply, "I totally agree, Kaidan, but Bioware never gave me that as an option" because I would have left that for the Council to decide. Yes now i know that the bugs might be helpful. Likewise, the Geth in my mind and in my Shep's mind are not alive. They are hardware simulating life. Bioware can try to prove to me the are synthetic life but they are not and never will be. Machines do not have rights. Yes I cried at the movie A.I. and yes I was on Mork's side in Milennium man but in reality I would never ever see machines as alive no matter how they appear to be. So my Shep's response is the Geth need to be erradicated, stamped out, and will help the Quarians do it. Unless the Geth can be completely involuntarily controlled by humans then thier days are numbered. Rewiring them to follow Legion is not an option unless Shep controlled Legion. That aside most of ME1 was about Geth annihilating humans. No way in heck is my Shep going to debate harmonious living conditions for those tin cans!!
However, Leah you have swayed me with one of your points. Yes, after much thought I concede if I played Shep as someone who felt it important to prove her innocence to Kaidan then yes it does indeed tone down my resentment of his Horizon words and yes you are right, it is my real life pride that stop me from doing that! Maybe just maybe I'll give the geek another chance one day....Though not likely coz I'm sexy and tonnes of others want me :) Although I do point out I dislike Jacob more than KA so it was never personal. lol.
Kite, the beer sounds good....it's your round :)
BTW...did you notice.... Thane talks of love....Jacob talks of love ....but Garrus just want hanky panky??
My issue with Jacob is boy scout syndrome... he is way too nice if you know what I mean. I make the joke that he would probably salute and say thank you Ma'am after sex!! Plus, I got Miranda to kill Niko and Jack to kill her high school buddy. Garrus to kill Sidonis yet Jacob ignores me and gets his Dad to shoot himself....Hey I am Commander Shepard, Lord of the Sith....loyalty is to me not parents bah!!! umm ok im mixing KOTOR n ME.
While I never "correct" things my primary has done I do redo things when comments really don't match options. I redid the horizon convo in all variations only to lean there is no real variation. I do want to bitch slap Ash when i see her next, only then will i get over it and make up :)
Sadly unless I upgrade my graphics card I am stuck on Xbox and no editing is possible. Plus i love playing it on a 50" wide screen in my reclining armchair. I have already told the family that the living room is exclusively mine and no one is to talk to me, disturb me or anything from March 6 2012. No i'm not a creep ... i gave up my Gettysburg vacation cos we had a sick dog...they all went while i stayed so im having my vacation in my armchair March 6 :)
Would that method let me import Claire's face on to ME1 for pc? I have ME1 which I can play fine but ME2 i get brown stripes on the characters. I created Claire like four years ago but cannot reproduce no matter how i try.
Jacob reminds me of the old spice guy..."Ladies, look at your man then back to me. He can't look like me but he can smell like me."
my favorite characters are in order...
1) Tali (I love all Quarians but there is something really cute and very oddly sexy about Tali)
2) Liara (I was luke warm to Liara in ME1 but she won my heart in LotSB
3) Ashley (Love that she is not your boringly typical liberal minded character that is way to common in US fiction)
4) Thane (Dunno why he draws me in)
5) Kasumi (Just fun )
Least favourites in order of dislike
1) Jacob (See previous comments)
2) Miranda (Total bitch until she needs help then its all nice as pie.)
3) Kaidan (resons explained)
4) Samara/Morinth (no reason other than she really creeps me out tho i don't know why.
5) Legion (Character makes no sense to me. I get why it's is included I just don't get why Shep wouldn't space it.)